I was a huge Usyk skeptic. But no longer. He’s legit. AJ reminds me of Oscar De la Hoya. Uber talented and charismatic. But always seemingly uncomfortable during their biggest fights. AJ needs an Emanuel Steward type of Guru to unlock his still immense potential. Maybe a Buddy McGirt or Joe Goosen could bring something new. Either way, I’m not ready to give up on AJ. Even if nothing changes outside of the ring, going into an Usyk rematch.
If AJ as you say is " uncomfortable during his biggest fights" how do you explain his fights with Klitschko , Dillian White , Charles Martin , Parker and Ruiz ll ? If Usyk is so great why all the trouble with mediocre heavyweight Chisora where he had to resort to backpedaling and holding to keep from getting KO'd? People place to great an import on one loss on one particular day , fighters do have off days like everyone else . AJ's resume is far and away the best of any of the heavyweights and Usyk will not have the same level of success against that crop that he has had. Usyk has the skills but not the size or power for them , AJ did not use his size advantage to his own detriment.
I know what you are saying about Usyk previous two HW fights they did not show much for me that is why I sat on the fence with this A.J. fight ...... That said A.J. has not shown he is a great fighter, Usyk coming in from Cruiser is bigger then anything A.J. has done. The fights did a lot of things to wake up boxing to a degree. It got rid of the plan that was set up long ago as to who would fight who in the HW divison. That in itself was great so maybe A.J. did do something great in loosing. (grin) Joshua is a good Heavyweight but that is where it stops for him.
I see where you're coming from John but disagree on your assessment of Joshua. He can box , throws combinations well and has both good hand and foot speed. He also despite Ruiz l can take a punch. He demonstrated that with Klitschko and Dillian White where he was caught , but managed to shake it off and come back. To me his loss to Usyk was about his strategy more than his ability also Usyk's own ability to avoid getting caught and he is a very capable fighter himself. I frankly don't see any other heavy that beats Joshua at his best and believe this will be a good learning experience for him. The Ruiz thing in the first fight I consider an aberration because Joshua got caught , concussed and was unable to recover . That can happen to any fighter at any time if you are caught with the right punch in the right spot. Joshua's biggest problem to me is his mental battle with himself , I think he has all of the other skills , tools and abilities of greatness it's all up to him.
I will not kick a guy for taking a loss in this era of boxing. Why he lost ? A.J. could not take the fight to Usyk, did not hurt the smaller man, never looked impressive thru the fight, was always fighting from behind, attempted to work his way back into the fight but still remained reacting to what Usyk was doing never dictated the fight. It was a good fight I enjoyed it but the better man still won, no one is saying that A.J. won this fight it was not a hard fight to score or appreciate. A.J. was done by the 12th round he was finished.
Right , those are the advantages Joshua had and he failed to use them. He boxed the boxer instead of going into a seek and destroy mode to the body which would have slowed Usyk and opened up the head. Hearn just signed Joshua to a lifetime contract so the fights are going to be there , Joshua has to make up his mind to use his strengths not to play to his opponents strengths. He has the talent it's about his mental state whether he will continue to succeed.
You've nailed it. Joshua boxing skills are not as strong as Usyk's, so he'll never outbox him. In a rematch, AJ may try to use his size and strength to get Usyk out of there, but Usyk has a great chin and AJ doesn't have the greatest stamina. I think it will be an uphill battle for AJ to win the rematch and he will rightly be the underdog.
Great performance from Usyk. Dan I’ve been reading you since ‘04 when I first moved out of my parents and the hockey lockout made room for lots of classic boxing on TV. Right around Hopkins vs De La Hoya. Joshua Fury has definitely lost its aura but AJ challenging the undisputed champ as the challenger would still sell out any stadium in the UK. If he invokes the rematch clause we will really see if he’s going to be able to learn from losses as well as Lennox Lewis and Wlad Klitschko or if he’s plateau’d. Usyk has to be number 2 P4P. Canelo and he are the only ones that have dared to be great and won. Inoue 3, Crawford and Spence can fight over number 4 and 5 since they won’t fight each other.
Usyk #1 for me - imo he's beaten better quality fighters overall and he's won every fight on the road, without any dodgy judging.
I'm not keen on Crawford and Spence being in the p4p top 5 - Crawford hasn't faced any of the best welterweights yet and of course they haven't fought each other yet despite Crawford moving to 147 in 2017.
Usyk looked like a schooled and trained high level pro boxer. AJ looked vulnerable as he always has. A natural athlete, but not a great boxer, with not a great chin.
I don’t see Usyk fairing as well against Tyson Fury. Thoughts?
I don't agree that Joshua has always looked vulnerable and his chin is clearly adequate considering his record and the quality of the opponents he's faced.
His tactics were completely wrong last night and he had sight problems from the 9th round onwards however Usyk was brilliant and maybe even better tactics may not have been enough for the win.
Usyk vs Fury is a boxer vs a boxer and could be a terrible fight - that said Usyk's record shows that he's capable of pulling off a win no matter how unlikely it may seem - I wouldn't bet against him even against Fury.
FYI and FWIW, Roy Jones on Usyk facing the winner of Fury-Wilder 3.
“ “Unless it’s Wilder, I hope it don’t happen. ... Two boxers don’t make for the most entertaining fight. ... We gotta keep Usyk and Fury away from each other by any means necessary. We do not want to see that. There should be a clause right now put into any contract: ‘Do not allow Oleksandr Usyk and Tyson Fury to have a fight.’ We do not need that for boxing.”
I agree with everything you say except that I don't think Fury would box Usyk . I believe he would do what he did in Wilder ll and go after him with his size and weight which is what AJ should have done. When Chisora a mediocre heavy did that Usyk struggled and barely won . That's what " true" heavys need to do with Usyk , impose their size and power.
I agree that Joshua has to get far more aggressive next time. I think everyone was shocked at the way Joshua fought - standing virtually in front of Usyk trying to outbox him even though Usyk has much faster hands and footwork.
Rob McCracken & Co., have a lot to answer for after coming up with that fight plan.
You make a lot of sense Oz. Joshua should have had a body attack from the beginning , the few times he managed to back Usyk up was when he too rarely went to the body. With the good movement Usyk displayed Joshua was mostly headhunting , trying to hit the moving target unsuccessfully. Going to the body was the way to slow that down.
Agree 100% - that's exactly what I was thinking when watching the fight.
I'm no expert but I think he would have done far better if he'd just forgot about winning rounds at the beginning and went hard for Usyk's ribs and arms to inflict as much damage as possible and slow his punching and footwork down.
Joshua would leave himself open to counters at times, especially early on, but he'd just have to weather those for the sake of the game plan.
TBH I don't know if Joshua could carry out this game plan but I really can't think of any other strategy that would prove successful against Usyk.
Thought it was a really good contest. Result wasn't a shock as I genuinely thought it was 50/50 beforehand.
Neither were at their best. What seemed to be telling was the first decent left hand Usyk landed within the first minute or so: Joshua appeared a bit gun shy after that, which dictated the course of the rest of the fight.
Joshua needs a break - a proper one. For all the talking heads stating he'll go straight into the rematch again, not one of them said 'let's see how he's feeling in a couple of weeks and then listen to what HE decides.' Joshua gave a brief post-fight press conference where he talked about 'everything was going well for 8 rounds.' So I can only respectfully assume he was a bit concussed. The pressure on Joshua [for which of course he's very well paid] must be immense. A change of scene and team could do him the power of good.
Usyk is sublime and a joy to watch.
Was it just my imagination or did the final bell ring early? Need to watch it back but have been struggling with wifi issues all day and Dazn needs a fair amount of bandwidth!
worse enemy. First he gives up his one major advantage his size by coming in rail thin and almost as light as Usyk , just paws instead of powering his jab and practically ignores the body where his presumed greater power would have done damage to Usyk. Usyk barely got by Derek Chisora a man who has been beaten by quite a few heavyweights because Chisora while deficient in skill set did use his true heavyweight size throughout . People are going to lionize Usyk but while he is skillful and capable he is not a true heavy and will be beaten by a few that I can think of relatively easily. By KO.
I was a huge Usyk skeptic. But no longer. He’s legit. AJ reminds me of Oscar De la Hoya. Uber talented and charismatic. But always seemingly uncomfortable during their biggest fights. AJ needs an Emanuel Steward type of Guru to unlock his still immense potential. Maybe a Buddy McGirt or Joe Goosen could bring something new. Either way, I’m not ready to give up on AJ. Even if nothing changes outside of the ring, going into an Usyk rematch.
If AJ as you say is " uncomfortable during his biggest fights" how do you explain his fights with Klitschko , Dillian White , Charles Martin , Parker and Ruiz ll ? If Usyk is so great why all the trouble with mediocre heavyweight Chisora where he had to resort to backpedaling and holding to keep from getting KO'd? People place to great an import on one loss on one particular day , fighters do have off days like everyone else . AJ's resume is far and away the best of any of the heavyweights and Usyk will not have the same level of success against that crop that he has had. Usyk has the skills but not the size or power for them , AJ did not use his size advantage to his own detriment.
I know what you are saying about Usyk previous two HW fights they did not show much for me that is why I sat on the fence with this A.J. fight ...... That said A.J. has not shown he is a great fighter, Usyk coming in from Cruiser is bigger then anything A.J. has done. The fights did a lot of things to wake up boxing to a degree. It got rid of the plan that was set up long ago as to who would fight who in the HW divison. That in itself was great so maybe A.J. did do something great in loosing. (grin) Joshua is a good Heavyweight but that is where it stops for him.
I see where you're coming from John but disagree on your assessment of Joshua. He can box , throws combinations well and has both good hand and foot speed. He also despite Ruiz l can take a punch. He demonstrated that with Klitschko and Dillian White where he was caught , but managed to shake it off and come back. To me his loss to Usyk was about his strategy more than his ability also Usyk's own ability to avoid getting caught and he is a very capable fighter himself. I frankly don't see any other heavy that beats Joshua at his best and believe this will be a good learning experience for him. The Ruiz thing in the first fight I consider an aberration because Joshua got caught , concussed and was unable to recover . That can happen to any fighter at any time if you are caught with the right punch in the right spot. Joshua's biggest problem to me is his mental battle with himself , I think he has all of the other skills , tools and abilities of greatness it's all up to him.
I will not kick a guy for taking a loss in this era of boxing. Why he lost ? A.J. could not take the fight to Usyk, did not hurt the smaller man, never looked impressive thru the fight, was always fighting from behind, attempted to work his way back into the fight but still remained reacting to what Usyk was doing never dictated the fight. It was a good fight I enjoyed it but the better man still won, no one is saying that A.J. won this fight it was not a hard fight to score or appreciate. A.J. was done by the 12th round he was finished.
Agree with your assessment.
Right , those are the advantages Joshua had and he failed to use them. He boxed the boxer instead of going into a seek and destroy mode to the body which would have slowed Usyk and opened up the head. Hearn just signed Joshua to a lifetime contract so the fights are going to be there , Joshua has to make up his mind to use his strengths not to play to his opponents strengths. He has the talent it's about his mental state whether he will continue to succeed.
Bad tactics from Joshua imo - he was never gonna outbox Usyk.
That said, Usyk was brilliant and maybe even more aggressive tactics from Joshua wouldn't have worked.
A lucky punch would’ve worked but he didn’t seem to be able pull the trigger, or take the risk
Agreed.
Aye - I think he was trying to follow the game plan he was given and ended up totally over-thinking the situation.
Agreed.
Definitely agree on the tactics , he gave away his advantages and fought Usyk's fight.
You've nailed it. Joshua boxing skills are not as strong as Usyk's, so he'll never outbox him. In a rematch, AJ may try to use his size and strength to get Usyk out of there, but Usyk has a great chin and AJ doesn't have the greatest stamina. I think it will be an uphill battle for AJ to win the rematch and he will rightly be the underdog.
Great performance from Usyk. Dan I’ve been reading you since ‘04 when I first moved out of my parents and the hockey lockout made room for lots of classic boxing on TV. Right around Hopkins vs De La Hoya. Joshua Fury has definitely lost its aura but AJ challenging the undisputed champ as the challenger would still sell out any stadium in the UK. If he invokes the rematch clause we will really see if he’s going to be able to learn from losses as well as Lennox Lewis and Wlad Klitschko or if he’s plateau’d. Usyk has to be number 2 P4P. Canelo and he are the only ones that have dared to be great and won. Inoue 3, Crawford and Spence can fight over number 4 and 5 since they won’t fight each other.
Usyk #1 for me - imo he's beaten better quality fighters overall and he's won every fight on the road, without any dodgy judging.
I'm not keen on Crawford and Spence being in the p4p top 5 - Crawford hasn't faced any of the best welterweights yet and of course they haven't fought each other yet despite Crawford moving to 147 in 2017.
Usyk looked like a schooled and trained high level pro boxer. AJ looked vulnerable as he always has. A natural athlete, but not a great boxer, with not a great chin.
I don’t see Usyk fairing as well against Tyson Fury. Thoughts?
I don't agree that Joshua has always looked vulnerable and his chin is clearly adequate considering his record and the quality of the opponents he's faced.
His tactics were completely wrong last night and he had sight problems from the 9th round onwards however Usyk was brilliant and maybe even better tactics may not have been enough for the win.
Usyk vs Fury is a boxer vs a boxer and could be a terrible fight - that said Usyk's record shows that he's capable of pulling off a win no matter how unlikely it may seem - I wouldn't bet against him even against Fury.
FYI and FWIW, Roy Jones on Usyk facing the winner of Fury-Wilder 3.
“ “Unless it’s Wilder, I hope it don’t happen. ... Two boxers don’t make for the most entertaining fight. ... We gotta keep Usyk and Fury away from each other by any means necessary. We do not want to see that. There should be a clause right now put into any contract: ‘Do not allow Oleksandr Usyk and Tyson Fury to have a fight.’ We do not need that for boxing.”
I agree with everything you say except that I don't think Fury would box Usyk . I believe he would do what he did in Wilder ll and go after him with his size and weight which is what AJ should have done. When Chisora a mediocre heavy did that Usyk struggled and barely won . That's what " true" heavys need to do with Usyk , impose their size and power.
I agree that Joshua has to get far more aggressive next time. I think everyone was shocked at the way Joshua fought - standing virtually in front of Usyk trying to outbox him even though Usyk has much faster hands and footwork.
Rob McCracken & Co., have a lot to answer for after coming up with that fight plan.
You make a lot of sense Oz. Joshua should have had a body attack from the beginning , the few times he managed to back Usyk up was when he too rarely went to the body. With the good movement Usyk displayed Joshua was mostly headhunting , trying to hit the moving target unsuccessfully. Going to the body was the way to slow that down.
Agree 100% - that's exactly what I was thinking when watching the fight.
I'm no expert but I think he would have done far better if he'd just forgot about winning rounds at the beginning and went hard for Usyk's ribs and arms to inflict as much damage as possible and slow his punching and footwork down.
Joshua would leave himself open to counters at times, especially early on, but he'd just have to weather those for the sake of the game plan.
TBH I don't know if Joshua could carry out this game plan but I really can't think of any other strategy that would prove successful against Usyk.
Agree it could be a stinker, I would put my money on Fury with that mile long educated jab. He would have a gargantuan size advantage.
You could be right - but of course Fury has to avoid defeat to Wilder next month.
Great fight, Usyk won convincingly, i don't see a re-match being that different.
Agreed.
Great minds think alike.
Thought it was a really good contest. Result wasn't a shock as I genuinely thought it was 50/50 beforehand.
Neither were at their best. What seemed to be telling was the first decent left hand Usyk landed within the first minute or so: Joshua appeared a bit gun shy after that, which dictated the course of the rest of the fight.
Joshua needs a break - a proper one. For all the talking heads stating he'll go straight into the rematch again, not one of them said 'let's see how he's feeling in a couple of weeks and then listen to what HE decides.' Joshua gave a brief post-fight press conference where he talked about 'everything was going well for 8 rounds.' So I can only respectfully assume he was a bit concussed. The pressure on Joshua [for which of course he's very well paid] must be immense. A change of scene and team could do him the power of good.
Usyk is sublime and a joy to watch.
Was it just my imagination or did the final bell ring early? Need to watch it back but have been struggling with wifi issues all day and Dazn needs a fair amount of bandwidth!
AJ seems to be his own
worse enemy. First he gives up his one major advantage his size by coming in rail thin and almost as light as Usyk , just paws instead of powering his jab and practically ignores the body where his presumed greater power would have done damage to Usyk. Usyk barely got by Derek Chisora a man who has been beaten by quite a few heavyweights because Chisora while deficient in skill set did use his true heavyweight size throughout . People are going to lionize Usyk but while he is skillful and capable he is not a true heavy and will be beaten by a few that I can think of relatively easily. By KO.