But I respect your thinking. But in sdcc game and out if shape are tomorrow different worlds. Just look at Tyson Douglas. Just a non trained out kik f shape non hungry Tyson lost that fight.
Hearns found out, you just do not go into a higher division (middle) and fight the champ(Hagler) without fighting a few middles first. Garcia found out, you do not jump to welters to fight the champ(Spence) without fighting a few welters first. Roberto Duran having a 60-1 record in the light weight division
And holding that for ten years, moved up two divisions to fight Ray Leonard, moved up and had 3 welter fights before fighting Leonard. And He defeated Leonard. Both Hearns and Garcia were hit yoo hard. Yes, they fought great champs, but a sturdy Barrios will show Davis, all the sparring will not help you, This fight with me is REAL, NOT SPARRING. You only adapt after fighting fights in the new division. Every punch from Barrios will be tremendously felt. Barrios by TKO.
Also, Davis will really feel what it is like being truly hit by a 140. It's different than gym sparring. Barrios is seriously trying to take his head off. The only way to get used too that is have apponnents hit you so you can get used to a reality check of the power you are going to contend with moving up. Davis better hope he carried some power up to the division. Easier said than done. Or else it will be a tough night.
I beg to differ. Duran was a shell of the first. Leonard knew this. His genius was go fight a not hungry and not in shape Duran. In the first fight Duran charged so much, Ray had no choice but to slug. Durans prime could never be beat by a prime Leinard. Yes, the fight was close. But totally controlled by Duran. Anyone who thinks Leonard beat a prime Duran in the second are completely wrong.
Pac could have never beat a prime Mosely or Hoya. The list goes on and on.
That's a good point - and when Duran "outgrew" lightweight he had 7 fights at or above welterweight before facing Leonard.
He fought Obando at 151 in 1978 and followed that with fights just below, or above, 147lbs against Brooks, Heair, Palomino, Gonzalez, Nsubuga, and Wheatley before facing Leonard in 1980. As you point out this meant Duran was used to the 147 division when facing SRL.
As far as Davis is concerned he may not regard Barrios as a "true" world champion as he holds the WBA "regular" belt and Josh Taylor holds all the real world belts at 140, and as such he may see this as a very winnable fight.
We will see if Davis has made a realistic assessment of Barrios tonight - that said, I've got to say that I don't regard Davis as a "clean" fighter - he hasn't been drug tested properly since he fled from the WBC rankings when they introduced their "Clean Boxing Program" and also being a member of "Team Mayweather" and involved with Al Haymon doesn't reflect well on him in that regard.
Excellent points. Enjoy the Barrios and Davis fight on SHO. And the Lomem fight today as well on ESPN+. And your right, even though Barrios is not what I call a full champ, he is very good, and just too strong. Davis will find this out. Geo's promoter is not very smart to do this. Enjoy.
Sorry Jim but we shall have to agree to disagree on that one.
Duran put on a lot of weight between fights and by 1978 he could no longer make lightweight while retaining his strength - he was 27 in 1978 and no longer the spring chicken that had ruled 135lbs since beating Ken Buchanan by crushing his testicles in 1972.
It is a fallacy that Duran fought Leonard, Hearns, Hagler, & Benitez while really being a lightweight - fighter's get heavier and find it harder to lose as much weight as they age - it's a natural process and this is what happened to Roberto.
Thanks for the insight. I agree with you. Thanks for the education on that one. Too me, the last prime fight was Duran vs Leonard 1. Yeah he beat Davey More and the middle Iran Barkley. But he did balloon to 200 lbs after 1st Leonard fight. That's why Leonard wanted to make the second fight quickly. He knew Duran would make weight, but not be in shape. Leonard admitted this. So I lost respect for Leonard not wanting to meet an in shape Duran. Yes I know its business. A famous writer back in the day of golfer Bobby Jones said , MONEY WILL RUIN SPORTS. It has. Again, thanks for your nice clarification. Appreciate your knowledge.
Duran even had his government pressure the sanctioning bodies to get Leonard to sign for the fight when Leonard stalled. And there was no one else too fight in light weight. Duran at that time despised Ray.
That would have been unlikely to have affected Leonard if he hadn't wanted to fight Duran - Leonard was a big star and would have called the shots however Leonard was a great fighter and wanted to test himself.
In 1978 when Duran left the lightweight division Leonard had fought only 7 pro fights (by Feb) and then when Leonard won the title by beating Benitez in Nov 1981 he didn't seek to avoid Duran as he was Leonard's second defence in June 1980.
It was clear that Leonard fought the wrong fight against Duran but nevertheless it was a very close fight - Leonard showed his genius in the rematch.
In fact after 1978 when Duran operated above 140lbs and 2 years prior to the Leonard fight - if Duran could have made it below 140lbs easily then he could, and probably would, have fought Aaron Pryor.
Pryor of course claimed Duran had ducked him - but the evidence is that Roberto couldn't even make 140lbs easily by then.
Thanks Mr. Rafael for all the great lineups and insight. Very much appreciated.
Quiet Storm
But I respect your thinking. But in sdcc game and out if shape are tomorrow different worlds. Just look at Tyson Douglas. Just a non trained out kik f shape non hungry Tyson lost that fight.
Hearns found out, you just do not go into a higher division (middle) and fight the champ(Hagler) without fighting a few middles first. Garcia found out, you do not jump to welters to fight the champ(Spence) without fighting a few welters first. Roberto Duran having a 60-1 record in the light weight division
And holding that for ten years, moved up two divisions to fight Ray Leonard, moved up and had 3 welter fights before fighting Leonard. And He defeated Leonard. Both Hearns and Garcia were hit yoo hard. Yes, they fought great champs, but a sturdy Barrios will show Davis, all the sparring will not help you, This fight with me is REAL, NOT SPARRING. You only adapt after fighting fights in the new division. Every punch from Barrios will be tremendously felt. Barrios by TKO.
Quiet Storm
I like your annalistic view, very interesting but a fight is a fight and let's see if Davis has the power to stop Barrios at junior welterweight
Also, Davis will really feel what it is like being truly hit by a 140. It's different than gym sparring. Barrios is seriously trying to take his head off. The only way to get used too that is have apponnents hit you so you can get used to a reality check of the power you are going to contend with moving up. Davis better hope he carried some power up to the division. Easier said than done. Or else it will be a tough night.
Your right on the money. This will be a nice war today. And that's why we are true fans. I just wish fighters moving up
divisions would give themselves a better chance. Especially undefeated ones. Just wish some of his macho would rub off to Spence and Crawford.
I beg to differ. Duran was a shell of the first. Leonard knew this. His genius was go fight a not hungry and not in shape Duran. In the first fight Duran charged so much, Ray had no choice but to slug. Durans prime could never be beat by a prime Leinard. Yes, the fight was close. But totally controlled by Duran. Anyone who thinks Leonard beat a prime Duran in the second are completely wrong.
Pac could have never beat a prime Mosely or Hoya. The list goes on and on.
That's a good point - and when Duran "outgrew" lightweight he had 7 fights at or above welterweight before facing Leonard.
He fought Obando at 151 in 1978 and followed that with fights just below, or above, 147lbs against Brooks, Heair, Palomino, Gonzalez, Nsubuga, and Wheatley before facing Leonard in 1980. As you point out this meant Duran was used to the 147 division when facing SRL.
As far as Davis is concerned he may not regard Barrios as a "true" world champion as he holds the WBA "regular" belt and Josh Taylor holds all the real world belts at 140, and as such he may see this as a very winnable fight.
We will see if Davis has made a realistic assessment of Barrios tonight - that said, I've got to say that I don't regard Davis as a "clean" fighter - he hasn't been drug tested properly since he fled from the WBC rankings when they introduced their "Clean Boxing Program" and also being a member of "Team Mayweather" and involved with Al Haymon doesn't reflect well on him in that regard.
Excellent points. Enjoy the Barrios and Davis fight on SHO. And the Lomem fight today as well on ESPN+. And your right, even though Barrios is not what I call a full champ, he is very good, and just too strong. Davis will find this out. Geo's promoter is not very smart to do this. Enjoy.
Aaron Pryor would have been killed by Duran. Alexis lost to a massive cheat with the most crooked trainer ever. No. Gimmie the one that I mixed.
One small point, Duran did not outgrow, he moved up solely to beat Leonard.
Sorry Jim but we shall have to agree to disagree on that one.
Duran put on a lot of weight between fights and by 1978 he could no longer make lightweight while retaining his strength - he was 27 in 1978 and no longer the spring chicken that had ruled 135lbs since beating Ken Buchanan by crushing his testicles in 1972.
It is a fallacy that Duran fought Leonard, Hearns, Hagler, & Benitez while really being a lightweight - fighter's get heavier and find it harder to lose as much weight as they age - it's a natural process and this is what happened to Roberto.
Thanks for the insight. I agree with you. Thanks for the education on that one. Too me, the last prime fight was Duran vs Leonard 1. Yeah he beat Davey More and the middle Iran Barkley. But he did balloon to 200 lbs after 1st Leonard fight. That's why Leonard wanted to make the second fight quickly. He knew Duran would make weight, but not be in shape. Leonard admitted this. So I lost respect for Leonard not wanting to meet an in shape Duran. Yes I know its business. A famous writer back in the day of golfer Bobby Jones said , MONEY WILL RUIN SPORTS. It has. Again, thanks for your nice clarification. Appreciate your knowledge.
Duran even had his government pressure the sanctioning bodies to get Leonard to sign for the fight when Leonard stalled. And there was no one else too fight in light weight. Duran at that time despised Ray.
That would have been unlikely to have affected Leonard if he hadn't wanted to fight Duran - Leonard was a big star and would have called the shots however Leonard was a great fighter and wanted to test himself.
In 1978 when Duran left the lightweight division Leonard had fought only 7 pro fights (by Feb) and then when Leonard won the title by beating Benitez in Nov 1981 he didn't seek to avoid Duran as he was Leonard's second defence in June 1980.
It was clear that Leonard fought the wrong fight against Duran but nevertheless it was a very close fight - Leonard showed his genius in the rematch.
In fact after 1978 when Duran operated above 140lbs and 2 years prior to the Leonard fight - if Duran could have made it below 140lbs easily then he could, and probably would, have fought Aaron Pryor.
Pryor of course claimed Duran had ducked him - but the evidence is that Roberto couldn't even make 140lbs easily by then.