There are several aspects of the Valdez decision that I have issue with.
That Valdez has tested negative on other tests, apart from being irrelevant to THIS test, does NOT in no way indicate that he's a clean fighter in a sport where the drug testing protocols are so pathetic eg: commission testing is poor, it's usually done at the wrong time and they don't test for everything, the WBC CBP is grossly underfunded and doesn't do anywhere near the number of tests needed for a good random testing protocol and it now transpires that enrolling in it does not commit you to the VADA banned list at all.
Even if we accept that the stimulant Phentermine only helps to suppress appetite, which I strongly suspect isn't the case, then isn't using this to drop pounds an unfair advantage over an opponent trying to drop weight naturally?
Also as Valdez accepts he was using Phentermine he will have known that he was gonna be popped when VADA took the sample on August 13th and so of course he stopped taking it after that just in case VADA returned - so imo the negative August 30th sample simply confirms that Valdez knew he'd been caught. The negative July 22nd sample simply shows Valdez hadn't starting using Phentermine yet - big deal.
The WBC ruling imo reads like the WBC committee and Team Valdez gathered in a room and brain-stormed "how many excuses can we make so that Oscar can be let off the hook?".
What is the point of the WBC CBP if a fighter admits to taking a drug on the VADA banned list but gets off because the local commission recognises the weaker WADA banned list?
Also Dan writes that "the WBC controls only the title, but has no authority to suspend a fighter or stop a fight." - I have to say that I find that hard to believe.
How then has the WBC suspended other fighters in the past that have been popped for a drug eg: Povetkin, Dillian Whyte, David Benavidez etc.
As far as I'm aware the WBC stopped the Wilder vs Povetkin WBC heavyweight world title fight from taking place in Russia while it took the time to come to a decision on Povetkin's case and eventually they suspended Povetkin, issued him with a $250K fine which they pocketed with nothing going to the WBC CBP.
Also if the WBC can't suspend a fighter or stop a fight - then how is it that, in a very similar situation to the Valdez affair, the WBO stripped Saunders of his WBO160lb title which cancelled his forthcoming fight with Andrade and suspended Saunders for 6 months (the fact that Saunders was let back in earlier being irrelevant to the WBO's power to do it), does the WBO have more power over its fighters than the WBC?
The whole affair stinks to high heaven but hopefully it will show boxing fans once and for all that the WBC is not serious about getting rid of drugs in boxing.
Sorry about the rant but I can't believe that the WBC can ignore its own anti-doping rules.
I've been around boxing since the 70s and think this is certainly one of the most worrying times for the sport. The main problem? Financial greed:-
The best won't [or aren't allowed - by broadcasters and/or promoters and/or managers] to fight the best unless the sums are astronomical. Hence the schedule is so poor.
Among the biggest bucks are paid to youtubers [I don't buy the 'bringing more eyes to the sport' rhetoric - how many of these fans will tune in for the Lara/Warrington card?].
Similar for the old-timers [who really wants to see De La Hoya in the ring after what he's put himself through over the years? He needs addiction help]. And at 59 years old next month and with countless wars on his resume, Holyfield should only be in a boxing ring as a trainer or referee.
Crazy amount of belts - franchise, regular, super, interim, continental, intercontinental, ring, lineal, 4 governing bodies. And how many weight classes?
Then of course there's the peds nonsense. Certain trainers have been regularly linked to suspicious activity or irregular results. Names such as Fury, Joshua, Whyte, Alvarez [all active and at the top of the paydays] have either tested positive or had issues with TUEs. The people who control boxing or influence views about it [broadcasters, trainers, promoters, journalists, 'governing' bodies, etc won't do anything about it. Why? $$$
Thanks English at a certain point I have given up on even responding too much about it the way boxing has become in this era. But I do appreciate there are fans that care about the sport and are willing to take the time to point out all that has happened to ruin the sport. It is about money, greed and lies for sure, I have seen it too many times but have lost the fire to point to it anymore, although I agree it has got so rampant that they can have it. I also believe that those with a voice writers and so forth are too close to the money and promoters to not be effected as to what they write or don't write anymore. Sad but true I must say. They the promoters and so forth care about money until you hit them where it hurts them in the pocket they do not even give a damn about the fans anymore. Well only the ones that follow blind to what they say and do.
As much as I agree with the general thrust of your post I think it's unfair to group Anthony Joshua, and even Dillian Whyte, in with the likes of Fury and Canelo. I'm saying this because I follow drug testing not because I happen to be English.
Anthony Joshua and Dillian Whyte have year round VADA contracts and are also tested by UKAD. Fury and Canelo have refused to commit to year round VADA contracts - Canelo had to have one as part of his WBC punishment when he was popped for Clenbuterol but he dropped it at the end of the first year instead of continuing with it.
As there are drugs around that there are no tests currently for, this doesn't rule out that Joshua and Whyte are 100% drug free but it is an indication that they at least care about a clean sport. The VADA contract costs them approx $40,000 per fight - an amount that Fury, Canelo and a few other fighters could easily afford.
The Dillian Whyte case when he tested positive just before a fight with Rivas was unusual but actually the double testing by VADA and UKAD actually saved Whyte.
This is because it was clear from the date of the positive UKAD test and other negative VADA test results on either side of the positive result that Whyte would have gained no advantage by using such a drug (Dianabol) for a few days - remember it was random testing, Whyte didn't know when VADA would return to test him.
One of the things that nobody in the drug testing business talk about is false positives and false negatives - they are pretty rare events but they do happen, this may have been the case with Whyte or he may have used a dodgy supplement for a couple of days.
Sceptical fans may never accept that but it's too easy to point fingers when drug testing is so complex and not as 100% reliable as portrayed.
Note that the Whyte case is totally different to Oscar Valdez - Valdez doesn't deny using the stimulant Phentermine but despite signing a VADA contract he has got away with it because the local commission uses WADA rules which only ban its use on fight night, not all the time as VADA do. IMO this technicality shows that the WBC CBP is not worth a jot, if that wasn't already clear from their gross underfunding of the program.
I'm sorry if I sounded like I was lecturing - the drug testing world is very complex and it's hard to write in a chatty style when discussing these aspects.
Well as for TUEs - these are not a matter of public record - the only reason we found out about Mayweather's TUE situation is because the details were leaked since Mayweather applied for the TUE after actually using the illegal IV.
I can't discount Joshua needing a TUE because he was ill prior to the Breazeale and Ruiz Jr (1) fights. However even if Joshua did get a TUE on these occasions I should point out that TUEs are not given out easily - that's why the Mayweather case (via USADA) was so shocking. As Joshua has a year round VADA contract and is English he would have to seek prior permission from VADA and UKAD and obey both VADA's and WADA's conditions for obtaining one.
It appears that the person most active in these TUE claims about Joshua has been Dillian Whyte who is hardly an unbiased source and who should know that obtaining a TUE that satisfies VADA & UKAD is by no means easy. Also, how would Dillian Whyte know when such details are private to the fighter? I also notice that Whyte likes to make excuses for losing fights and has proven to be an unreliable source of other information over the years.
When it comes to suspicions about fighters using drugs I tend to look at how many times they are being tested - Joshua's had a year round VADA contract for about 6 years now and has been subject to UKAD random testing since he became an amateur and throughout his pro career. This means Joshua has probably been the most tested fighter in pro boxing for the past 6 years. While this doesn't absolutely guarantee that he's clean (there's no tests yet for certain drugs) it seems there are many other fighters who are either rarely tested, or never tested, to be more suspicious of.
Finding out about PEDs in boxing isn’t easy as you probably realise – Google is the easiest way of finding the various articles that are out there.
I also buy Thomas Hauser’s annual boxing books that these days usually have a few articles about PEDs in them, as well as lots of other boxing stuff. Some of these articles are available on-line and can be found via Google.
Honourable mention to Dan Raphael of course who is also good at reporting about this stuff and Dan somehow often gets hold of the actual letters and documents involved too.
Here’s a few links to articles that might be of interest…
I included this article as there’s a link at the bottom of this article to a Michael Montero YouTube video in which he shows why this budget is so poor. One of the things Michael forgets to mention is that each WBC champion is supposed to be random tested throughout training when they are defending their title (I'm not sure if the opponent must be too).
Michael also seems to be unaware that VADA take urine and blood from a fighter in the CBP, they do this because HGH can only be tested using blood and other drugs via urine, and so the amount Michael uses for the cost of a VADA drug test, $200, is faaaar from the real cost.
To see this - in the following article from 2017 Margaret Goodman (VADA) is quoted as saying a full VADA test (blood & urine) costs $1300. Maybe that has been minimized in some way since however it simply can’t be $200, and even $500 could be far too low...
There are several aspects of the Valdez decision that I have issue with.
That Valdez has tested negative on other tests, apart from being irrelevant to THIS test, does NOT in no way indicate that he's a clean fighter in a sport where the drug testing protocols are so pathetic eg: commission testing is poor, it's usually done at the wrong time and they don't test for everything, the WBC CBP is grossly underfunded and doesn't do anywhere near the number of tests needed for a good random testing protocol and it now transpires that enrolling in it does not commit you to the VADA banned list at all.
Even if we accept that the stimulant Phentermine only helps to suppress appetite, which I strongly suspect isn't the case, then isn't using this to drop pounds an unfair advantage over an opponent trying to drop weight naturally?
Also as Valdez accepts he was using Phentermine he will have known that he was gonna be popped when VADA took the sample on August 13th and so of course he stopped taking it after that just in case VADA returned - so imo the negative August 30th sample simply confirms that Valdez knew he'd been caught. The negative July 22nd sample simply shows Valdez hadn't starting using Phentermine yet - big deal.
The WBC ruling imo reads like the WBC committee and Team Valdez gathered in a room and brain-stormed "how many excuses can we make so that Oscar can be let off the hook?".
What is the point of the WBC CBP if a fighter admits to taking a drug on the VADA banned list but gets off because the local commission recognises the weaker WADA banned list?
Also Dan writes that "the WBC controls only the title, but has no authority to suspend a fighter or stop a fight." - I have to say that I find that hard to believe.
How then has the WBC suspended other fighters in the past that have been popped for a drug eg: Povetkin, Dillian Whyte, David Benavidez etc.
As far as I'm aware the WBC stopped the Wilder vs Povetkin WBC heavyweight world title fight from taking place in Russia while it took the time to come to a decision on Povetkin's case and eventually they suspended Povetkin, issued him with a $250K fine which they pocketed with nothing going to the WBC CBP.
Also if the WBC can't suspend a fighter or stop a fight - then how is it that, in a very similar situation to the Valdez affair, the WBO stripped Saunders of his WBO160lb title which cancelled his forthcoming fight with Andrade and suspended Saunders for 6 months (the fact that Saunders was let back in earlier being irrelevant to the WBO's power to do it), does the WBO have more power over its fighters than the WBC?
The whole affair stinks to high heaven but hopefully it will show boxing fans once and for all that the WBC is not serious about getting rid of drugs in boxing.
Sorry about the rant but I can't believe that the WBC can ignore its own anti-doping rules.
I've been around boxing since the 70s and think this is certainly one of the most worrying times for the sport. The main problem? Financial greed:-
The best won't [or aren't allowed - by broadcasters and/or promoters and/or managers] to fight the best unless the sums are astronomical. Hence the schedule is so poor.
Among the biggest bucks are paid to youtubers [I don't buy the 'bringing more eyes to the sport' rhetoric - how many of these fans will tune in for the Lara/Warrington card?].
Similar for the old-timers [who really wants to see De La Hoya in the ring after what he's put himself through over the years? He needs addiction help]. And at 59 years old next month and with countless wars on his resume, Holyfield should only be in a boxing ring as a trainer or referee.
Crazy amount of belts - franchise, regular, super, interim, continental, intercontinental, ring, lineal, 4 governing bodies. And how many weight classes?
Then of course there's the peds nonsense. Certain trainers have been regularly linked to suspicious activity or irregular results. Names such as Fury, Joshua, Whyte, Alvarez [all active and at the top of the paydays] have either tested positive or had issues with TUEs. The people who control boxing or influence views about it [broadcasters, trainers, promoters, journalists, 'governing' bodies, etc won't do anything about it. Why? $$$
Thanks English at a certain point I have given up on even responding too much about it the way boxing has become in this era. But I do appreciate there are fans that care about the sport and are willing to take the time to point out all that has happened to ruin the sport. It is about money, greed and lies for sure, I have seen it too many times but have lost the fire to point to it anymore, although I agree it has got so rampant that they can have it. I also believe that those with a voice writers and so forth are too close to the money and promoters to not be effected as to what they write or don't write anymore. Sad but true I must say. They the promoters and so forth care about money until you hit them where it hurts them in the pocket they do not even give a damn about the fans anymore. Well only the ones that follow blind to what they say and do.
As much as I agree with the general thrust of your post I think it's unfair to group Anthony Joshua, and even Dillian Whyte, in with the likes of Fury and Canelo. I'm saying this because I follow drug testing not because I happen to be English.
Anthony Joshua and Dillian Whyte have year round VADA contracts and are also tested by UKAD. Fury and Canelo have refused to commit to year round VADA contracts - Canelo had to have one as part of his WBC punishment when he was popped for Clenbuterol but he dropped it at the end of the first year instead of continuing with it.
As there are drugs around that there are no tests currently for, this doesn't rule out that Joshua and Whyte are 100% drug free but it is an indication that they at least care about a clean sport. The VADA contract costs them approx $40,000 per fight - an amount that Fury, Canelo and a few other fighters could easily afford.
The Dillian Whyte case when he tested positive just before a fight with Rivas was unusual but actually the double testing by VADA and UKAD actually saved Whyte.
This is because it was clear from the date of the positive UKAD test and other negative VADA test results on either side of the positive result that Whyte would have gained no advantage by using such a drug (Dianabol) for a few days - remember it was random testing, Whyte didn't know when VADA would return to test him.
One of the things that nobody in the drug testing business talk about is false positives and false negatives - they are pretty rare events but they do happen, this may have been the case with Whyte or he may have used a dodgy supplement for a couple of days.
Sceptical fans may never accept that but it's too easy to point fingers when drug testing is so complex and not as 100% reliable as portrayed.
Note that the Whyte case is totally different to Oscar Valdez - Valdez doesn't deny using the stimulant Phentermine but despite signing a VADA contract he has got away with it because the local commission uses WADA rules which only ban its use on fight night, not all the time as VADA do. IMO this technicality shows that the WBC CBP is not worth a jot, if that wasn't already clear from their gross underfunding of the program.
You clearly know a lot more about the topic than I do - thanks for sharing your views.
I'd be interested to know what you think about the TUE talk that's surrounded Joshua for a number of years?
I'm sorry if I sounded like I was lecturing - the drug testing world is very complex and it's hard to write in a chatty style when discussing these aspects.
Well as for TUEs - these are not a matter of public record - the only reason we found out about Mayweather's TUE situation is because the details were leaked since Mayweather applied for the TUE after actually using the illegal IV.
I can't discount Joshua needing a TUE because he was ill prior to the Breazeale and Ruiz Jr (1) fights. However even if Joshua did get a TUE on these occasions I should point out that TUEs are not given out easily - that's why the Mayweather case (via USADA) was so shocking. As Joshua has a year round VADA contract and is English he would have to seek prior permission from VADA and UKAD and obey both VADA's and WADA's conditions for obtaining one.
It appears that the person most active in these TUE claims about Joshua has been Dillian Whyte who is hardly an unbiased source and who should know that obtaining a TUE that satisfies VADA & UKAD is by no means easy. Also, how would Dillian Whyte know when such details are private to the fighter? I also notice that Whyte likes to make excuses for losing fights and has proven to be an unreliable source of other information over the years.
When it comes to suspicions about fighters using drugs I tend to look at how many times they are being tested - Joshua's had a year round VADA contract for about 6 years now and has been subject to UKAD random testing since he became an amateur and throughout his pro career. This means Joshua has probably been the most tested fighter in pro boxing for the past 6 years. While this doesn't absolutely guarantee that he's clean (there's no tests yet for certain drugs) it seems there are many other fighters who are either rarely tested, or never tested, to be more suspicious of.
Excellent reading - thanks for taking the time.
Didn't come across as a lecture!
Any suggested links/websites for further content/posts?
Finding out about PEDs in boxing isn’t easy as you probably realise – Google is the easiest way of finding the various articles that are out there.
I also buy Thomas Hauser’s annual boxing books that these days usually have a few articles about PEDs in them, as well as lots of other boxing stuff. Some of these articles are available on-line and can be found via Google.
Honourable mention to Dan Raphael of course who is also good at reporting about this stuff and Dan somehow often gets hold of the actual letters and documents involved too.
Here’s a few links to articles that might be of interest…
USADA and Mayweather’s PED use….
https://www.sbnation.com/longform/2015/9/9/9271811/can-boxing-trust-usada
Here’s that Irish Times article about Amanda Serrano and her team in case you missed it….
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/other-sports/team-taylor-taking-no-chances-as-they-insist-on-drug-testing-of-opponents-1.4076074
Here’s what Paulie Malignaggi thought of the WBC CBP before we even knew how bad the underfunding was….
https://talksport.com/sport/boxing/605446/paulie-malignaggi-peds-canelo-vs-kovalev/
Here’s an article by Steve Kim in which the current WBC CBP budget ($150K) is revealed....
https://snac.com/blogs/k-9-kims-corner/wbc-clean-boxing-program-shield
I included this article as there’s a link at the bottom of this article to a Michael Montero YouTube video in which he shows why this budget is so poor. One of the things Michael forgets to mention is that each WBC champion is supposed to be random tested throughout training when they are defending their title (I'm not sure if the opponent must be too).
Michael also seems to be unaware that VADA take urine and blood from a fighter in the CBP, they do this because HGH can only be tested using blood and other drugs via urine, and so the amount Michael uses for the cost of a VADA drug test, $200, is faaaar from the real cost.
To see this - in the following article from 2017 Margaret Goodman (VADA) is quoted as saying a full VADA test (blood & urine) costs $1300. Maybe that has been minimized in some way since however it simply can’t be $200, and even $500 could be far too low...
https://tss.ib.tv/boxing/featured-boxing-articles-boxing-news-videos-rankings-and-results/41851-urine-specimen-margaret-goodman
Happy reading :-)
That's great - thanks again. I'll take a look this weekend.
If this is your business you're doing a really good job with it!